EDIT: Okay guys, apparently this law only concerns St Petersburg, and not all of Russia. More info here=> lezgetreal.com/2011/11/st-pete… It doesn't make it less horrible, but it is a small relief. /EDIT
I'm going to make a shout on something very important happening right now: "In 48 hours, political leaders in Russia will vote on a law that makes speaking out as a gay, lesbian or trans person ILLEGAL. Because Russia is a large and powerful nation, the international community has stayed silent. If thousands of us raise our voices, they will be forced to speak out and stop this horrific law." You'll understand why I can't help but post this everywhere in the hope to help in this crucial moment. Sign the petition here=> www.allout.org/en/russia_silen… It's easy, safe, and takes less than a minute.
It's too surreal for me to imagine such a law taking place. As an artist, it would mean not being able to publish anything, just because I have preferences that might be considered different. I'd feel caged.
As a guy living in Moscow, I'm sorry to say that there's practically no LGTB community whatsoever. Max 50 people gathered this summer on some kind of gay parade, but well, it was not sanctioned, so half of them were arrested and the other half got beaten by various orthodox and nazi-like people. And that's 50 people in 11+ mil city. People here are very afraid of their sexuality, and more so of other's opinion about it.
The USA whare I'm from is good with is strides towards the LGBT comunity. I whish that some of the states were less represive than others. The fact that Russia is doing this is sad but do relize they fully got out of communism only 20/21 years ago.
I just dont understand why people feel the need to repress each other. You don't choose your sexuality, you are who you are, straight or not. I definatly signed, and it looks like based off the numbers of petition signers it wont pass. Thank god. Love are peace to all!
This is one of those times when I agree and dissagree .
Agree: There really should be a limit of where this end media wise .Kids can be influenced very easy (hence why they're stupid).And as far as I know most of those outspoken people that like to scream their sexuality are mostly gay men (havent seen lesbians scream it though.....(sad I know) ) .I myself am a transsexual and the less noise there is about it the better.
Dissagree: A goverment can't really pass a law like that without causing a international scandal either from France or.............one of the scandinavian contries.....I think it was the middle one(or the left one)....cant remember right now.
Kids can be influenced easily (it's not called stupid, it's called LEARNING). It's not a question of limiting the media, it's a question of HOW the media presents things to them. Any kid can understand homosexuality/transgender if it shown in a clear, loving and respectful way. And because gay men apparently scream it on top of the roof we should silence them? This isn't about "less noise", it's about downright silence.
When I said "less noise" I meant about transsexual in general and not the LGB community.It still counts as feaking mental illness dispite all proof to the contrary.
Silence is preferable since most people are easy to anger.There is a difference between being homosexual and being transgendered or transsexual.Some transsexual/transgendered are homosexual but not all homosexuals are transsexual/transgendered.Explaining this to a child would only confuse him/her....if were talking about children less then 9, 10 years old.Im not looking to start a flame war.If people get fired because of their sexuality it still counts as discrimination dus this law does not count.Now if there is a march for "exeptance" thats a different thing,you can't change how grown men and women think (it just angers them).
Then again I really shouldn't take part in this disscussion anyway since I cant stand men in general and with me its more about faggot hatin then homophobia(Im not sure if this will make any sence to you).
PS: The world would be a beter place if Roomie was an internation role model
True some organizations count homosexuality as a mental illness. But just because you have a PhD doesn't mean you're immune to prejudice. It's amazing and a little bit sad how stupid some of the smartest people in the world can be. Less noise won't really solve anything. If a gay man wants to dress up in pink short shorts with rainbow suspenders and a penis on his shirt, I say let him. I'll laugh my ass off at the sight but that doesn't mean it's wrong. I just found it funny (much like I do everything else)
And I can explain the difference between homosexuality and transgender very easily.
"Well son. Some people realize that the gender their body says they are is not the gender that their mind says they are. So they fix it, and then they live just like you or me."
"Just like a man falls in love with a woman, a man can also fall in love with a man, and a woman can fall in love with a woman. It's all love kid"
It's all in the matter of how you explain it, and children need to learn that people are people, no matter what.
You are right about being unable to change how some people think. Those people are too busy being closed minded that it's not that they can't see reality. It's that they choose not to see, and that's okay. Nobody needs to ask their opinion because in reality, they have no opinion. Prejudice and stereotyping does not constitute as an opinion. It constitutes as picking up stereotypes and trying to pin them on random patrons in a gay bar. (which will probably result in being mauled by a pack of bears)
The simplest way to put it this:Transgendered people dont like their birt gender but they never have a SRS they want to look like females whilst having a penis .Transsexual on the other hand cant stand their birth gender and if no actions are taken it end in suicide for most.And the rate of false transsexual that go through SRS are fucked when it turns out they werent transsexual in the first place all do to media.
Also, I was referring to bears as in the slang for larger, hairy men. Being mauled by a pack of bears refers to a bunch of 'bears' beating someone up for being a jerk to them. I don't doubt it's happened. I've met some very tough gay men. They were very friendly people, but they weren't afraid to retalliate if someone was being a jerk to them. It was actually kinda funny watching him punch this one guy who called him a pretty nasty combination of names. He didn't say anything back, just straight out punched him. It was pretty funny, especially cuz the guy deserved it (not the gay guy, the guy who was being a jerk)
Agreed about kids learning. When you have nothing to compare with, you take what info is available to make sense of the world and figure out what to aim for and what to avoid.
...I'd like to ask, if somebody does "scream", what's so threatening about that? (Or, more to the point, what's so much more threatening about a gay male being obvious about his love for men than a straight woman doing the same thing?)
Reading the thread, I did see that this is not as simple as a brand new law being discussed, but I passed it on anyway. No harm in signing it; no harm in demonstrating how people feel about this kind of ideas.
(...and jeez, the guy feeling the need to express that he won't sign it, because he doesn't support these people, but he's totally not against you! Mind boggling.)
Je doute qu'on y puisse grand chose, la russie étant un grand pays et n'a jamais été très versé dans le respect de la personne, toutefois j'ai signé et partager cette pétition sur facebook, car même si elle ne me concerne pas directement, je trouve ça tout simplement inadmissible. J'espère que la communauté internationale réagira, mais je doit avoué, j'ai peu d'espoir
Ya, that would be pretty dangerous. I am from Russia and people there can beat up lgbt people (and we r not talking bout stupid teens, we r talking 40 year old men beating up someone). There was a talk show and common people were agreeing with more a less creating a death penalty for gays. People taking part in gay parades are being dragged into prisons by police. So Russia isn't the most liberal country out there
You know the funny thing: I have been following news from Russia and this is the first time I hear about this law. I have checked on Wikipedia, and there is no mention of any such law being made here: [link] or here: [link] .
When laws are being passed, there are usually names and numbers associated with it. The article you cite mentions only Medvedev and Putin, as if they were the only politicians in Russia. Trust me, they have no time for infringing homosexuals' rights.
I have found this news: [link] . However, that law only affects St. Petersburg, not all of Russia, and it merely reinforces the law that was passed eight years ago.
Whatever the current hysteria is about, I cannot find any basis for it. Please prove me wrong if you have more information than I.
The law only affects St.Petersburg, but it dumps homosexuality and transexuality together with paedophilia (!) and it effectively opens the gate to repress any public manifestation by LGTB groups (on the grounds that "children could see it" and the law is supposed to be for the "protection" of children) So it's definitely a step in the wrong direction.
And to think that the USSR was the first country in modern history to de-criminalize homosexuality...
And as for homosexuality being lumped with pedophilia, I am not happy about that, either. In fact, I am all for protection of homosexuals' rights. But in this particular case, I am not worried, because from my personal experience, most Russians believe that laws exist to be broken, anyway. It's the homophobia faced in everyday life that people have to worry about, and from what I hear, it has never been that big of an issue in Russia.
Read it. Despite what many Moscow dwellers and foreigners would like to think, Moscow is not all of Russia, and the city is known for its extremely high aggression and crime rate. You should read the reports about inter-ethnic violence there. In other words, what JAKDumbass describes is not specific discrimination against gay people but part of general malaise of a big city. You cannot consider it separately from the rest of Moscow's problems.
As for the extreme closetedness of Russian gay community, I think I can confirm that. However, I see it less as a result of homophobia and more of the other factors. One is that Russia has historically been a very traditional family-oriented society, much more so than Western Europe and USA. Its laws merely reflect the sentiment of the majority of population, just like democracy should in principle. It would take more than laws to change its culture.
Secondly, ever since 1991, the Russians have been dying out--you can see that clearly from the censuses. It shouldn't surprise you then that the older generation, the ones currently in power, are at the moment much more interested in stabilizing the population than protecting minorities' rights. Hierarchy of state needs, if you don't mind the term.
You seem well-informed about the issue, and you're probably right in general terms; still, this political initiative of the St. Petersburg authorities doesn't show a mere 'lack of interest in protecting the rights of minorities', but rather an active attempt at silencing them. It's a worrying move, whichever way you look at it.
There are so many things in Russia and the world at large that need worrying about, but what I personally worry about the most is whether we are worrying about the correct things? There are a couple of topics that are always good to spark a public debate and drown out important news with the white noise, and homophobia is one of them (also, nationalism, antisemitism, and radical religions). If you want to cover up something important (like, say, police brutality against peaceful protestors), just pass a small homophobic or nationalistic law and everyone will be too busy condemning it to notice your other misdeeds. Simple trick, happens to work. I don't says homophobia is acceptable in any way, but it is abused for political goals too often nowadays, making me suspicious of any kind of public actions like the above.
Aye, that's a trick they like to play and they're good at it: it works pretty often, and it can let them get away with lots of stuff. But why be "suspicious" of the people who react against those measures because they're directly threatened by them? After all, it's not like you can shrug and say "Oh well, why worry about this when they do lots of worse stuff".
I don't think you were the one overdramatizing. I think it was that site you cited. A bit of research reveals that it was created by the Avaaz movement, which has been suspected of getting money from George Soros through its own parent organization MoveOn. And I wouldn't trust anything that old man supports, especially if he is not making profit out of it.
I have signed it, it makes me sad to think that the government there probably will not care what any petition says, even if it's delivered by all 100,000 people to their doorstep. I can only hope that some good comes of this, or they decide by some wild luck to change their minds and revoke the bill.
Reading about it, the ban is limited only to St. Petersburg at this time. It's a city ordinance, not national policy. It's still a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but the problem is not as bad as it seems. [link]
Unless someone can point me out to a more up-to-date link.